Listen on
| Immigrant entrepreneur: | Ahmed Elsamadisi |
| Company: | Narrator.ai |
| Place of birth: | Egypt |
| Employees: | 7 |
| Age started business: | 25 |
Show notes
Ahmed came to the United States at the age of 10 with his family from Egypt, all in the name of education. In Egypt the education system is corrupt. The teachers don’t teach and they must supplement their income by tutoring.
Ahmed’s parents brought their children to United States because the education system is proven to be a lot better than in Egypt.
Ahmed created his data analysis startup company, Narrator.ai at the age of 25 which allowed him to be feautured on the Forbes 30 under 30 list. His company went through some tough times in the beginning stages but 3 years later it’s growing strong!
Quotes by Ahmed
Passion, energy and excitement and really dedication, really works in America versus other countries. In Egypt it’s based on your grades.
Having people that are like you, makes the journey a lot less lonely.
You want to give up every day.
Nobody cares about failure and nobody remembers about failure.
You will fail 1,000 times, and it’s just the nature of it.
It’s a lonely job being a CEO and you suck at it, and you fail.
If you and your team are all together caring for each other than failure is a lot less lonely because you have a bunch of people to fail with.
Where to find Ahmed
Mentioned on this episode
- Book: Super pumped: The Battle for Uber
- Book: Bad Blood: Secrets and Lies in a Silicon Valley Startup
- Y Combinator (YC): incubator program, and provides seed funding for startups.
(affiliate links are included)
[read more] Alina Warrick (1s):
Welcome to the Immigrant Entrepreneurs Podcast, Episode 31. My name is Alina Warrick and I’m super excited to chat with Ahmed Elsamadisi about his path to success. His journey to entrepreneurship really started when he was barely accepted to Cornell University, because he had the lowest SAT scores that entered college that year. He created a company called Narrator that’s completely destroying the best practices in the data analysis world with his new invention. Ahmed was featured in the Forbes 30 under 30 list.
Alina Warrick (45s):
And I got to say, it’s quite an accomplishment to be featured on that list, along with all the other impactful entrepreneurs and successful people that are changing the world. So quick side note, I took this call with Ahmed while he was in Egypt visiting his home town. And the satellite service I tell you wasn’t all that great. So just an FYI, you may hear some lags here and there, but I promise you this episode is going to rock your world. So let’s hear all about how Ahmed started his company in his twenties and what it’s like to be a young Immigrant Entrepreneur.
Alina Warrick (1m 29s):
Let’s dive right in. Okay, Ahmed. Thank you so, so much for coming on to the Immigrant Entrepreneurs podcast, I truly appreciate your time and I’m super excited to learn all about your journey. So welcome to the show.
Ahmed Elsamadisi (1m 44s):
Thank you. I’m excited to be here.
Alina Warrick (1m 46s):
So lets talk about your Immigrant journey. Tell us where you’re from and when did you come to the United States?
Ahmed Elsamadisi (1m 52s):
So I was born and raised in Egypt and
Alina Warrick (2m 12s):
And how old were you? You said you were 10 years old?
Ahmed Elsamadisi (2m 15s):
Yeah.
Alina Warrick (2m 16s):
Okay. And so you came with your family?
Ahmed Elsamadisi (2m 18s):
My mom and dad. And my dad had been in America for like 10 years. And then my mom, my dad and my brother and sister, all came.
Alina Warrick (2m 26s):
Got it. And so why did your parents decide to move to New York?
Ahmed Elsamadisi (2m 30s):
So I think New York was really picked as a really good melting pot for foreigners. You could have access to all the things that you had in Egypt and all the things you wanted in America, in New York. Because there was like little communities that were very Arab there. There were private schools, so I went to a private school that was like religious. So my parents chose locations that had a pretty decent Muslim population also. And the main thing we were coming for, was better education. My mom is a dentist, and my dad is an engineer, and education in Egypt it’s just very different. So they wanted us to learn more and America made better sense for that for that.
Alina Warrick (3m 9s):
Got it. Got it. So what kind of job did they pick up when they first immigrated?
Ahmed Elsamadisi (3m 14s):
Like a classic immigrant story. My dad, like he built three buildings in Egypt and he was a top engineer here and then he came to America and was working as a cab driver. And then he built a small little like contracting business, which he would do some work really mainly cab driver and he’s like contracting or majority of it. And my mother, she was a dentist here and had her own practice in Egypt. And then when she came to America, she was mostly like a mom taking care of us because, my sister was kind of smart, she skipped three years, she transitioned. So my mom would like study with her and then take care of us as my dad was working, I think, I’m amazed by it.
Ahmed Elsamadisi (3m 58s):
Like fourteen hours a day. Like I look back and I’m like, I would not have been able to immigrate anywhere.
Alina Warrick (4m 4s):
And the reason why I asked you is because you guys went to private schools, so I’m like, okay, so were they, doctors or lawyers?
Ahmed Elsamadisi (4m 12s):
I think it’s such an interesting thing you see in the Arab community, like being so close to your roots was so important to my family, that it was important for my dad. Like my parents would work extra hard so that we can actually afford to go to a religious school where like people there were like us, making us feel more comfortable and not losing sight of our background or our religion. So that was super critical. Like I think one year my dad had to work in construction for the principal to like subsidize some of the cost of tuition.
Alina Warrick (4m 44s):
I love it. That’s amazing. And so did your parents know English before they moved?
Ahmed Elsamadisi (4m 50s):
No. No. They all learned it. I don’t know if you hear this a lot from Immigrants but my parents, used to call the English that we spoke as we got more comfortable speaking. The English, you could speak as an immigrant, which is you have to enunciate a lot more and it always has an accent because you need to enunciate because the words are just a little different. So my mom learned English and still today, like she has a very intense accent and I think all of us as children had accents also. But I think as we went to college, like I went to four years where I decided to only speak English, so I can get rid of my Arabic accent, so that I couldn’t like sound like this.
Alina Warrick (5m 26s):
Yeah, your English is great. So did your parents know anyone in New York? I know you said your dad has lived here for 10 years before he moved. Did he have any family or friends? Or he just chose New York because like you said, its a big community of Arabic people?
Ahmed Elsamadisi (5m 41s):
Yeah. No, he didn’t have anyone and there was no like relatives or family in New York. My dad was the first one here. Yeah. He didn’t know anyone. Like I think nowadays when our like uncles or cousins, like moved to America we’re all there. But when my dad came here, there was no one and like when my mom came here, we were very lucky that our neighbors on the same floor of our building, we’re also Egyptian. So we like became really close friends with our neighbors. We used to call them our cousins. Because we were just together. So that was the only family we had. Birthdays will be at their house or our house. And like that was the entire community, this little bubble of just like two families kind of making it in the US.
Alina Warrick (6m 19s):
New found cousins. What was it like growing up in Egypt?
Ahmed Elsamadisi (6m 23s):
So Egypt is very different because you are in a third world country. So there are things that you take for granted in America that you don’t realize like water and like hot water, and like different things. And it’s just a lot more open. Like you wake up in the morning, you go to the street, you play soccer, it’s all the kids go down and play and it’s dirty, and you’re using rocks as your goal post. And I talked about my childhood to my friends and they’re always like, what? It was just like, ah, we have this holiday where we have to sacrifice a sheep. Like it’s very, very normal for my parents. They’d be like, okay, we’re going to bring a sheep through the apartment into the balcony, kill it in the balcony and take care of this thing in the balcony.
Ahmed Elsamadisi (7m 4s):
And we’re like, what?
Alina Warrick (7m 5s):
Wait, this is the New York?
Ahmed Elsamadisi (7m 8s):
No, no, no, in Egypt. In New York, you can’t do that. Like if you have a balcony in New York, well there’s other stuff like that, you eat differently. I remember
Ahmed Elsamadisi (7m 49s):
And each one of them has like two or three kids. It was normal for us. I’m the second oldest. And my sister is the oldest, to like gather all the little kids and bring them to my grandma’s house because we all live within the same building. And we would all go to my second floor where my grandma live and we were all the kids would come down and it’d be like 30 of us. And we would teach them like dances and stuff. Like that’s what we did, that was like fun. That’s how you occupy your time, bringing everyone together and just spend all the time with your family.
Alina Warrick (8m 13s):
Did you guys have a TV growing up?
Ahmed Elsamadisi (8m 16s):
No, we didn’t. I think we had a TV and it broke, so we were like, it was like a very big a deal that eventually we got a TV, but like, I think it broke, like moving it in. So I don’t remember any TV that we ever watched and we didn’t even have books to be honest. Like I don’t think my parents were really big on reading. So there wasn’t really a book. Everything else is just, you make games out of whatever was available. Like that’s it. You just like figure it out. Like your chairs or your friends.
Alina Warrick (8m 38s):
Did you say chairs or your friends?
Ahmed Elsamadisi (8m 39s):
Yeah, because the chairs are the most useful things ever. They become like, obstacle courses, and golf posts, and like gates and anything you want you can make a chair into that.
Alina Warrick (8m 49s):
That’s why immigrants are creative. They originally had friends as their chairs. I love it. I love it. Was it prominent that everyone went to public school and then college and a university?
Ahmed Elsamadisi (9m 3s):
In Egypt, so my grandma is illiterate. So she can’t read and write still. And she raised her children, she was really obsessed. Because my grandpa was a boxer and he died really young. So my grandma took care of like eight kids and she was very, very big on education. And so, my mom is a dentist, her brother is a doctor and a pharmacist and an engineer. And like all variations of those like doctor-dentist combination. So when we grew up, it was very important for us to also get educated. So my parents were like very well off in Egypt and lost everything when they came to America. In Egypt we went to like an American school and I’m like by an American, I mean, like they taught English.
Ahmed Elsamadisi (9m 45s):
And so we would go to school there and every one of the family was planning on getting like a college degree. And all of us were expected to finish school and become like doctors or dentists or engineers. So that was always ingrained in our culture, and to my grandma. And this is what was expected. But the education system in Egypt is very different. I’ll probably talk about that a little bit when I talk about going through college. And I think that’s the hugest separation that like, I am so thankful for America because my entire life would be different if it wasn’t for the way that colleges work in America versus how it works in Egypt.
Alina Warrick (10m 21s):
So, so true. So it seems like you had a really good life in Egypt. Why did your parents decide to give it all up?
Ahmed Elsamadisi (10m 27s):
Yeah, because really it was the idea of learning. So we talked about, a little bit, about how my family cares a lot about learning and education. And me and my sister and my brother, you’ll hear about us. But we all care a lot about learning, more than money, more than anything else we care about learning as much as we can. And college in Egypt is very, very bad, like because of the low economy, teachers don’t teach in Egypt so you have to take like tutoring session because that’s how they supplement their income. They charge for tutoring. And there was just all this corruption and like grades and like all of these things that happen. So your entire education is completely based on how much money you can afford to pay.
Ahmed Elsamadisi (11m 7s):
And that’s like very limiting. Egypt hasn’t really adopted innovation as a core entity. It’s beginning to a little bit now, but it didn’t had back then. So like, if you want to learn, you were at a cap. My dad was like, number two in, when he graduated college of engineering, he knows like a decent amount stuff, but like no where near what, like I had known two years into college, like it was just like the world is
Ahmed Elsamadisi (11m 53s):
In Egypt, that’s not even possible. That’s like, what are you talking about? Why would you ever imagine that? I’m still considered the crazy one because I started a company and they were like, why you couldn’t find a job at a bigger company that would give you a car? And you’re like, no,
Alina Warrick (12m 22s):
We are so grateful and thankful for our parents for bringing us to America. So Ahmed tell me a little bit about this struggles that you have to go through when you first immigrated.
Ahmed Elsamadisi (12m 33s):
Yeah. So I remember so clearly when I first came, I was like in the center of first grade or second grade, whatever grade it was. And they gave us this framed picture and they were like, fill in the month or something. And I was like February, January, February. And I looked at that and I started crying and then my parents, they had to come and take me home. I remember you’re entering a world where like, you don’t speak the language. You don’t have friends, you don’t have family support and it’s all different. So, sorry, preface. I went to private school for high school, not for when I first came here. Elementary school, I was in public school and then middle school and high school, I was in a private school.
Alina Warrick (13m 11s):
Got it.
Ahmed Elsamadisi (13m 11s):
So when I first came in, it was a public school. And so then no one there was Arabic. I thought I had known enough about English, but like you learn English, I’m sure you probably hear this all the time, very differently. There’s words that even the way we say them, you’re coming in and you are like, okay, I’m going to go to the key-loss. And they are like, what is a Key-loss? And then it gets cold and you want your jacket. Then they are like, what are you saying? And I’m like, people make fun of you because you’re like, Oh, you mean class, and I mean jacket. But we have that wording, but when you learn it in Egypt, like the alphabet is like, A for apple, B for banana. And they are like, what are you saying? Everything is a little off. They’re like,
Ahmed Elsamadisi (13m 56s):
And you come, and there is no one. And your dad is working like 12 hours a day and your mom is trying to figure out, okay, we’ll have to go buy food and do all these things and she used to be a dentist. And she was like, used to go in and work. And now she’s like trying to navigate home life. And so when you were in a lot of like a quick one after the other, just to prize experiences that you don’t realize, I think we take a lot for granted, all those little things that you were just not used to. And I think especially also like, come in middle school, like elementary or middle school, kids are all bratty. People are talking about like TV’s and play stations or whatever they are using and you have nothing. And you were just like, I don’t know. And you look a little funny. And like, my parents were like, okay, they wanted us to look good.
Ahmed Elsamadisi (14m 38s):
So we were like dressed like we were like going to like, I don’t know, like an interview. And then we had like bow ties. And like, they were like, why are you dressed like that? And so all these things, it just made that transition, take a little bit longer. I was like, I think we were welcomed early on but people do make fun of you for like a bunch of things. But like, you know, it’s the middle school, right. Elementary school, they are kids, they make fun of everyone.
Alina Warrick (15m 2s):
And so what about the public transportation system? Did you guys use that? Or you said your dad was a cab driver, did he drive you guys’ to school or how did you guys handle the transportation?
Ahmed Elsamadisi (15m 14s):
We were close enough to walk to both elementary school and high school. My dad is very, very obsessed with making sure that we had mobility. So we live and there was like a park, two parks within walking distance, that we can go to and grocery stores and a bunch of stores and like library. And so all the things we ever needed to do was we always walked to the school and walked home, so my mom would just walk us up and we would walk back.
Alina Warrick (15m 40s):
Got it, got it. Okay. So, before you tell our listeners about your company, tell me a little bit about the path that you took and did you try to go into any other field before starting your business?
Ahmed Elsamadisi (15m 53s):
Yeah. So one of the things that I mentioned earlier is that the options you are aware of are very limited, kind of coming from a different country. There was like a million majors that I didn’t know existed. So when I went to college, it was like, you were either a chemical engineer and you work at an oil company, or you were a mechanical engineer, or you are a civil engineer and build bridges. Like this was the only three options that I knew existed. And I chose mechanical engineering because that was like, okay, like I like engineering and it was or being a doctor. And I didn’t like anything related to medicine. So like you just chose, there was only two options, doctor or engineer, and you pick the one within the engineering field that matches you the most. And I remember when people first introduced me, Oh, you have to do a computer language.
Ahmed Elsamadisi (16m 37s):
And I was like, I don’t know. I speak Arabic. Is that like what you were talking about? And they were like, no, no computers have
Alina Warrick (17m 9s):
Wow.
Ahmed Elsamadisi (17m 10s):
They were like, well, we debated about you, either you’re gonna be like an incredible person at Cornell or you’re going to drop out in the first month. And I was like, great, I’ll prove you guys. And like, later on, I was chosen as like, one of the most impressive out of eighteen most impressive of Cornell students. So like, I think I chose my path correctly. It was great. So I was actually leaning toward like, I didn’t know what to do. So I was like, let me be like a mechanical, may be chemical engineering. And then I got into robotics and I think that’s really what changed my life because people took the chance on me and began teaching me and letting me kind of explore the world of robotics. So I started my career in robotics. I got a really excited by making computers think like humans. We’ve had Autonomous car in college, like that competed against the Google car and all the cars, the autonomous cars, as we know today.
Ahmed Elsamadisi (17m 53s):
And I got more deep into like human AI in decisions. And so when I graduated, actually, I always thought I was like, I’m going to work my whole life in algorithms. And I ended up making my way to Raytheon. I did an AI for missile defense. Like we really spend a lot, did a lot of intelligence there. It was doing really well. What we talked about being different. Well going as an Arab named Ahmed in Raytheon, is like the most extreme
Ahmed Elsamadisi (18m 35s):
So I joined WeWork to build out their data team and while building out data for them, I spot this huge problems, and it was really about what it takes to do an analysis at a company. So I start off and I’m like, I’m gonna build smart buildings. And WeWork is going to have the smartest buildings that are going to respond to you. And I’m going to use all of these algorithms then they are like, yeah, good luck. First, you have to analyze data. And so you can answer basic questions, and then you got to answer questions, then do analysis, like understanding what customers are doing. And like good luck, you have to work on the data engineering because the infrastructure related to answer questions is really complicatedly a mess. And you go down to the earliest part of the collecting data and transforming data.
Ahmed Elsamadisi (19m 18s):
And what you realize is that what it takes to get to do that analysis is really, really, really hard. And most companies will spend so much money and time and resources, and still struggled to like answer basic questions because of the way that the world of infrastructure is. And once you get, all the stuff set up and it takes like months and months and months. And then you can do one analysis. All that work that you did, if you are going to do a similar analysis or under the same analysis for another company, you’d have to redo the whole thing. Like everyone is just redoing just 90% of the work and the idea was like, wait a second, we can move forward in this world, if, for us to understand customers and behavior, so we can work, find a problem.
Ahmed Elsamadisi (19m 58s):
And I decided, what would it be like if we changed kind of all of data. So the deal was, what if I can standardize all of data in the world into a single table. That’s just like a simple 11 column table. And what if I can use that table to answer any question and what if I could take any question and copy and paste there for any company in the world.
Alina Warrick (20m 18s):
Wow.
Ahmed Elsamadisi (20m 19s):
And the idea that if you could do all of those things, theoretically, I can pick an analysis from one company and then copy and paste it to another company without doing any of the work that we standardized, we standardized the input and therefore we can reuse the analysis.
Alina Warrick (20m 33s):
Wow. So is this like a bunch of Excel spreadsheets and running macros.
Ahmed Elsamadisi (20m 38s):
So, that for big data? So you imagine like companies today are like at WeWork has like 5,000 Excel sheets where you have thousands of hundreds of thousands and millions of rows of data. With like thousands of columns. So WeWork, for example, had about 5,000 of these and the idea was, what if I could take all that and all the important stuff and make it into a single 11 column Excel sheet. That’s really long, and the same 11 columns are for every company in the world. And you standardize data and you can reuse and share and rebuild, and re-do all these things with analysis.
Alina Warrick (21m 10s):
Wow. Wow. That’s amazing. So you basically found a problem, a consistent problem at WeWork and you jumped on this solution and that’s how you created your company.
Ahmed Elsamadisi (21m 22s):
Yeah. With three years in the middle of, but yes. When you see to start a company, I think there’s different kinds of companies. Like one kind of a company that we started was really a problem first. So like there was no solution people invested in our ability to try to figure out a solution at work, because theoretically what we were doing, I can name hundreds of companies that have tried it over the years and its impossible. Like how the hell did you take all the data do that? Like every company is different. Everybody is unique. And we enter the field knowing that this is nearly impossible, but if done and done well enough this can really change how the entire world, like for the first time ever, all the data analysis can be shared and people can work together to make better decisions.
Ahmed Elsamadisi (22m 7s):
So it’s a company that’s like two people can now compete with Amazon in terms of quality understanding of their customer. Even though Amazon has a thousand engineers, powering their like data and helping them answer questions. And this company just has, Narrator. And like, that’s what you wanted to create. That’s how you allow everyone to move forward much faster. Like the kind of the rising tide raises all ships by changing how data analytics is done. Then you can actually raise and elevate all startups to be on the same level of competition with these giants that have a lot more resources in them.
Alina Warrick (22m 38s):
Wow. So you did the impossible, but that’s like kind of historical. That’s amazing. That’s amazing. So who are your maybe major clients for this type of data solution?
Ahmed Elsamadisi (22m 54s):
Yeah, so we work with a lot of like, like e-commerce brands, bigger companies, more data-oriented companies. So right now most of our customers are ranging between series B, C, start-ups. So they have like, they’re doing a million in revenue, a million a month in revenue and they’re trying to better understand their customer. And we’re like a data system and it’s growing at a data community. Like I’ve mentioned what we did is considered to be impossible for the longest time. And now that after three years it begins to work. So a lot of people are beginning to be like, okay, well like, well shit, I’m going to see it like slowly and surely. Like every call I have starts with did not, it’s to good to be true. You must be full of shit. I don’t believe you. And slowly it gets too.
Ahmed Elsamadisi (23m 36s):
Okay. That’s clever. That’s clever. I see what you did there. And then when they see were about to launch our big, what’s called our narrative templates where you literally can search up question and we’ve answered so many questions that we have these handwritten X by experts analysis. So like you’re like, what attribution models should I use, until they get a full analysis written by an expert in marketing. Tested that analysis with like, for that one, it’s like 45 companies and you can get the answer in a story format that walks you through what happened and how the decision is made and answers your question for you, instantly. And I think that’s usually what gets people to be like, wow, this is something special.
Alina Warrick (24m 14s):
I’m sorry, I didn’t catch that question. What was the question that you mentioned?
Ahmed Elsamadisi (24m 18s):
What attribution model should I use? So a marketing company.
Alina Warrick (24m 21s):
Attribution model.
Ahmed Elsamadisi (24m 22s):
They spend money on like, you probably get targeted with a bunch of ads and there is a big question on how do you understand the value of advertisement? Well, the first thing is how do I tie in an advertisement to the person? And this is the figuring out which way and how to tie it. It’s called an attribution model. And that’s what you want to make sure that you’re doing because it’s very easy for you to spend six years building an attribution model and get really complicated when you don’t need to. And it ends up misleading your decision so that you’re spending money and not getting the value that you expected. So quality attribution model, plus a quality understanding of your customer acquisition costs, would really allow you to spend money, significantly better. And just make the impact that you hope to make.
Alina Warrick (25m 4s):
Oh, what an amazing journey. Thank you so much for sharing that. So Ahmed, how old were you when you started your business?
Ahmed Elsamadisi (25m 11s):
25 years old.
Alina Warrick (25m 12s):
25 years old. Wow. That’s super, super young. What an accomplishment. So I saw that you were featured on 30 under 30 list for 2021, next year. Tell me a little bit about that. How did you get on there? Do you know who nominated you?
Ahmed Elsamadisi (25m 30s):
Yeah, so actually I do know who nominated because it was one of our customers and one of the users, because he was like, Oh, I nominated you and I was like, cool, thank you. Yeah. So the 30 under 30 is really, I think about the people who are trying to make a big impact on the world and the incredible people that have been there in the past. And this year, are all people, when you read their stories, they’re really making a humongous difference in food, in science, in engineering, in like social impact. So I’m very, very humbled and incredibly amazed that I was able to join them. And I think the biggest thing that like kind of led to that is I think when you think about the customers, that was the one who nominated me.
Ahmed Elsamadisi (26m 12s):
He was a data analyst, he works alone, he does things very much on his own. He was like I told you that was like, this is a huge upfront work and months and months. And when he saw in Narrator was a difference in lifestyle and a difference in the world that we are creating. And I think that excited him enough to really share that story with the Forbes team, because as Narrator continues to grow, you are going to allow sharing. So whatever he does and all the work he does from scratch on his own is built on top of shoulders of giants. And he can then set it up for the next generation to make it even more impact. So now that worked, that was still like still crushing alone, doing everything from scratch and build some things to try to do it, has just became different.
Ahmed Elsamadisi (26m 56s):
It becomes part of a community where he’s starting off way with way
Ahmed Elsamadisi (27m 42s):
And just like the world has been able to move so much thanks to software being open and I’m excited for seeing the same thing happening with our understanding of our customers, our understanding of people, our understanding of self and being able to create a world where that’s actually possible. I think that, myself to customers that use the product and the person who nominated me, you have that as one of those, like a big shifts in how we are gonna behave. I think that you have to be excited with the Forbes community to look into myself a little bit more. And then we talk and share the journey of building a company, as you can imagine, is gruesome, especially when you are trying to do something very different and people think its impossible, like how do we sell something that like might eventually work but doesn’t really work right now and you need to like raise the money, but it could possibly work, but no one has done it.
Ahmed Elsamadisi (28m 32s):
And there is enough companies that have died trying to do it and it’s recommended not to do it. And theoretically, you can wrap your head around it. It takes a long time. Like our first investor was so incredible to like believe in us enough to give us a chance and then we’d take that money. But it then takes us a long time to get it to work or innovating it. It’s an impossible problem. And then you have to sell it, but it’s like really janky because it’s really hard to build it. So we were like struggling. We almost died at one point, everyone in the company went down to minimum wage.
Alina Warrick (29m 0s):
Oh my goodness.
Ahmed Elsamadisi (29m 2s):
But now you’re coming out on the other side and I think people value the determination that you did to continue that battle and the impact that we get to make on every single one of our customer’s lives every day.
Alina Warrick (29m 12s):
Yeah. Yeah. I’m excited that you guys are doing some powerful things out there in the software and data analysis world. Good stuff. So you mentioned you guys raised capital, is it okay if I asked you how much capital you guys raised?
Ahmed Elsamadisi (29m 25s):
So we raised, I think, a total of seven and a half a million dollars. Our last round was, you know, at least like a $6.2 million dollar series A round, led by initialized capital.
Alina Warrick (29m 37s):
Got it, and are you going to do any more?
Ahmed Elsamadisi (29m 39s):
Yeah, I’ve sort of gave the
Alina Warrick (30m 11s):
Got it. Got it. Awesome. And so how long did it take you guys to start to see some real traction in the beginning stages?
Ahmed Elsamadisi (30m 19s):
So I mentioned, we struggled for like two years, the company almost died. We made it out. We went to YC and I think it was like, I think like nearly two and a half years before we started seeing some sort of traction. Yeah. So I think the way that the traction started coming is, first of all, the product started working. So requiring what did we have a working product.
Alina Warrick (30m 41s):
Yeah.
Ahmed Elsamadisi (30m 42s):
And working is really tricky, because I mentioned we are trying to do something so different and part of the way you solve a problem that’s impossible as you change culture while your changing with the product. So the product it has to take advantages of the
Ahmed Elsamadisi (31m 24s):
So we’re selling the technology and helping and showing people, all the things you can do with the ability to answer questions really fast. So just like any new technology, you have an industry where everyone is using a tool and the fundamental approach that the whole data world is built upon, is different than ours. So when you Google best practice or anything, it’s not going to be us. We’re telling you to not use the best practice because it is the best practice that’s the only thing that’s available to people right now. So what ended up happening, I think with YC, with us raising money, with us blogging, sharing more, doing a lot more talks. People started giving us the time of day to be like, okay, maybe you have something, let’s hear it.
Ahmed Elsamadisi (32m 5s):
And I think slowly one customer after the next customer started believing and saying, okay, we’ll try it. We’ll try it. We’ll try it. And then, soon you have people talking about us and recommending us and it’s still like, this battles not going to stop now. There are still like 90% of my conversations that I have are with people who don’t know us who are like, why are you telling me to change everything? This seems like a lot. And we were like, we’re not, we are trying to kind of add to your system. And here is the value, and they are like I’ve never had anyone do this. And you’re like, yeah, that’s the point like, this is innovation. So that’s kind of what it really took. Blood, sweat and tears is really like, I think this is name of the game in an early stage company. It was just like kind of hustling through it, going after one rejection after the other rejection, not being affected, being positive, having your team, making sure that they feel loved and you work at it together and everyone together kind of chisels away at this really huge thing that you were trying to make a difference.
Ahmed Elsamadisi (33m 0s):
And unlike a lot of other companies were innovating in one of the fastest growing, most innovative fields, we are not innovating in like a low tech field. I feel like this is a company, like real estate, doesn’t use technology. And now we’re going to add technology to it, that’s like first level innovation, we were talking about like Amazon or Google and all the data companies are selling you their most advanced AI and machine learning and all this stuff for data analytics. And we’re going to one of them as they have thousands and hundreds of thousands of engineers building the most advanced technology. And we are going to build you something that’s such a huge leap forward. And you’re going to be willing to take a risk and use this small company instead of these giants and its going to be such a fundamentally different approach that like you have to change how you think.
Ahmed Elsamadisi (33m 47s):
I think a lot of our customers’, most of our customers to go through that journey with us, see the value of why we do it, but you are going to be up against giants and it’s not an easy way to fight.
Alina Warrick (33m 58s):
Yeah. You guys are innovators for sure. And for those of us that don’t know what YC is, YC is a Y Combinator company that funds early stage start-ups right?
Ahmed Elsamadisi (34m 11s):
It’s an incubator program. So they fund you and they provide you with resources and experts and you kind of work with them to help kind of grow your business. So it’s an incredible team of people that come together. All of them are starting a founder’s that you are like really get to work with people who understand what it’s like to be you.
Alina Warrick (34m 30s):
So I wanted to ask you about mentors and if you had any mentors that helped you out to start your business.
Ahmed Elsamadisi (34m 37s):
Yeah. So what is life without mentors?
Alina Warrick (34m 40s):
Right.
Ahmed Elsamadisi (34m 43s):
Like thousands of people that enabled me to be where I am today, there are some close, very close people that really stuck by me. So when I left WeWork, a lot of the people that were with me and WeWork continue to like talk to me every single week. WeWork’s VP of product Andy, would, Andy Palmer, would sit with me every week and I would tell him what’s going on. And we would talk about it. WeWork’s former CTO, would sit with me and I would talk to him about what’s going on with Narrator. He was actually one of the people who sat with me and came up with a name Narrator. Person that actually hired me to WeWork when I first interned at WeWork. He’s the one that gave us our seed rounds. So he’s the one that put in the first $300,000 check and then the next million dollar check.
Ahmed Elsamadisi (35m 24s):
So people have been in journey’s and it’s not just like mentorship, where they give me advice. They sit with me and talk to me for hours. Or my Head of Data for WeWork, also is one of my close friends and it’s these kind of people that you’re able to bounce ideas off. You continue talking to them to help us. And we had those things or the, like kind of building a team world and technically like my former bosses boss at WeWork would talk to me all about like, like he was the VP of Engineering at WeWork helping me with figuring out what to do. He later on joined the company. So he is one of our team members and our principal engineer when you’re building a data company, security and infrastructure is so huge.
Ahmed Elsamadisi (36m 4s):
And first the nascent, he was like one of the best engineers I’ve ever worked with, this genius person that would help us figure out all this stuff. And he was like actively engaged and then eventually joined us too. I think every single person we hired either like started out as helping us and then spend the day with us. And then it was a contractor and then worked part time. And then eventually like they became full-time.
Alina Warrick (36m 29s):
Well, that’s amazing how the people tat WeWork didn’t see you as a competitor and they were willing to help you and guide you in the little ways that they could. So that’s awesome too. So Ahmed, looking back at your Immigrant Entrepreneur career and knowing what you know now, would you want to change anything or do anything differently?
Ahmed Elsamadisi (36m 51s):
So of course, yes. I think that there are so many things that I’m going to rephrase the question. It could be like, what do I hope for the next Entrepreneur? Because I think from my perspective, like there’s all these things that I wish were there and I can argue that them not being there made me stronger, but really let’s talk about the next generation of entrepreneurs. And I think that I am here in Egypt talking to other entrepreneurs that are Egyptian. I don’t know what it is, but it’s even just having people who are like you makes the journey a lot less lonely. Things that I remember, like keeping me sane, where other people from Cornell that I was like, okay, you have, we share some story, other people that were CEOs and we share some stories and really helping each other being like, you’re not crazy, but I think it matters to have someone who looks and knows how you grew up and knows like what kind of early values you have, because they can also support you in that emotional level that you don’t have.
Ahmed Elsamadisi (37m 45s):
So I always wish that there was more communities out there for Immigrants and more communities for, like Immigrant founders or even Arab founders. There is a conversation that a lot of people couldn’t resonate with me, which was like, how do we tell your parents you are starting a company? I told my parents a year after I started a company that I started a company because as an Immigrant it’s a big deal. That’s like not respected, really look down upon. You’re like giving up your money and everything you had to go do something to help. And they’re like, I don’t get why, it’s like, you just need to like have a car. So having communities where you can have that conversation, it’s critical and stuff like this podcast that got me so excited about it is, I am sure that someone else or one of your listeners is going, yeah, I remember I don’t wanna start a company because I also don’t know how to tell my mom, I want to start a company.
Alina Warrick (38m 32s):
Right.
Ahmed Elsamadisi (38m 33s):
Because family is such a big deal to us and we’re so tight. So when I think about the kind of things I think about like, that’s what I wish was more, I wish there was more community. I wish there was more people to help you. And I wish you knew that they can ask because it takes a lot of guts. I think entrepreneurs who have a lot of similar personalities, because you have to kind of like go after what you want. Pretty much asked for help. And it’s hard to ask for help. I go to, like, WeWork and had all these people who affected me and cared for me, that I can be like, Hey, talk to me every week because I don’t know what I’m doing. That’s hard. In creating communities, that’s okay, where people know that some of the issues that you’re not embarrassed to talk about, I think is the biggest thing that we can do for the next generation.
Ahmed Elsamadisi (39m 13s):
There’s a famous poem I like that talks about this old man who like crosses his chasm and then stops and he’s going back in building a bridge and there’s a traveler that comes and asks him, Hey old man, you’ve crossed this chasm that’s very dangerous and like multiple times by yourself, why do you keep on going back to try to build this bridge? You’ve already passed it. And the old man says, there comes a generation that has to come, that some of them, this chasm might actually hurt them or cause them dim, ah young man I’m building this bridge for him. So it’s really about like building the bridge for the next generation to go further. And that’s the stuff that I like to think about it a lot.
Ahmed Elsamadisi (39m 53s):
And how do we, I help that as I continue to use other bridges that people have built for me. So the next Immigrant who’s scared to start a company because of family issues, how does that person have a community to talk about it and be able to then get that courage? Just like I’m going to do the same thing as I continue to grow. And you’re asking other people who have already done what I’ve done and raised their next round and continue to grow or make a bigger impact. You’re constantly looking at those mentors and those communities to help you. How do we also create the thing, communities for people with a little bit more of our circumstances who deal with issues that I think other people won’t deal with. I mean other people do, but it was kind of people that look like you will have similar issues who will feel comfortable asking you those questions.
Alina Warrick (40m 33s):
And I totally agree with you because I have this one guy on this show and he told his mom that he was going to start, you know, his business and she could not understand it. She was still back home. And five years later, she still does not know what he’s trying to do. And she still can’t wrap her head around him starting a business. And you know, he was just like, mom, it’s been five years, come on, get over it. So yeah, I totally agree with you because a lot of times, you know, immigrant parents want the education piece, right? They think that the education is so big to the American dream. And then, you know, after that you get a career and then you have a career job for you now the next 20 or 30 years.
Alina Warrick (41m 14s):
And when you tell them you are starting a business, they are like, no, your education is important, go back to your job. And education is important. I’m not discounting, you know, but I think for immigrant parents, I totally agree with you. They are in that mindset where it’s like, go get your job and get a car.
Ahmed Elsamadisi (41m 32s):
Because stability for them was the goal, like when they came to America, they lost everything and for them, they viewed the world as, there’s stability and there’s lack of stability. And they viewed themselves as they didn’t like, my father didn’t have stability, he lived paycheck-to-paycheck, he worked his ass off and there would be days where he would worry about food and like life, because the job market is like that, that he doesn’t get enough ride for the day and now he’s worried about something and they’re like, you have to hustle to make it. So when they see our generation and they see us having stability and choosing to let go of it, like to choose to have less money, to choose, to have more risk, to choose to leave that stability behind, in their minds that seems crazy.
Ahmed Elsamadisi (42m 14s):
I remember like two years or I think a year and a half, somebody came in, they were like, Oh, did you quit your start-up? And I was like, no. And then they were like, Oh, you’re dad is telling the people that you have a different job. I was like, dad, just tell people that I work for my company. And he was like, it’s too embarrassing to tell people that you are jobless. And I’m like, no, I have like, have our company. And I’m like, Hey, yeah, you’re jobless. Or actually even funnier, I think, explaining to your parents the concept of raising money, I think is a very confusing because.
Alina Warrick (42m 44s):
Just don’t tell them.
Ahmed Elsamadisi (42m 46s):
They are like, Oh yeah, you are going around begging for money. And I’m like, no, it’s raising money. He was like, no, you’re begging for money. And I’m like, why would somebody give you money? You guys don’t have profit. Like how much money are you going to give them back? And I’m like, well, no, they want the potential. And then he was like, no, no, no, I don’t get it. And like, my dad still tells me is like, I want, I want a dream that you like have a big Oak desk and you sit behind your desk and you have people that worked for you, and I’m like, that dream was not today’s dream. I worked for my team. My team should yell at me and they don’t work for me, I work for them. And then I don’t have an oak desk. My job is to walk around and to make sure that anyone who needs me I’m available. So I’m not going to lock myself in a room.
Ahmed Elsamadisi (43m 26s):
Like, and they’re like, what does not, you are not a manager then? You’re not a boss. What are you doing? So all these things are the things that we, like me and you can talk about this conversation and laugh but I think that it’s so hard or like when you talk to some other people, like, this is what I mean when I talk about a community is like this exact sharing and understanding and empathizing that you can do with me is something I think is very unique to immigrants.
Alina Warrick (43m 49s):
Yeah. So hopefully with this podcast there will be a really nice community coming out of it to help Immigrants with their journeys and your story is gonna, Oh, my goodness inspire so many Immigrants to keep on going and to create their dream entrepreneur job. So thank you. Thank you so much. And so I wanted to ask you about failures. How do you look at them and how do you overcome them? And I really want to know specifically how you mentioned that you guys were kind of like done with start up at like what two years in, and everyone went down to minimum wage. Did you have at any point in time want to ever give up during that stage.
Ahmed Elsamadisi (44m 30s):
Yeah. I wanted to give up everyday. I think that one of the things that you’ll like learn in starting a company is that failure is nothing. Like nobody cares about failure and nobody remembers failure. It’s the thing that you will fail a thousand times and its just the nature of it. So the first time you fail, you’re like, Oh my God, things didn’t work out. Everything I thought about was collapsing and you want to quit. And you’re like, what am I doing? Why did I do this? And there’s two of those things that are always going to keep you sane. One is your team, your team, believes in what were, the whole company is doing. And you have a mission and a vision in everyone is
Ahmed Elsamadisi (45m 14s):
My team would tell me like, Hey, do you remember what it was like we do for your team? And we worked one day really spend months to do their jobs and it was miserable. Should I read the emails that you were trying to change? And this world with data is terrible, it’s faulty, it’s really bad. We are going to change that. And you need to remember that whenever you are feeling exhausted. So your team has always reminded you, there is a community of other start-ups. So like I had a community of other CEOs. I would be like, yeah, it is a lonely job there. And it sucks, And I’m like, no one is ever gonna be happy with you. Like CEO and no one has ever liked good job Steve. He was like, you’re like, you make a big round.
Ahmed Elsamadisi (45m 56s):
But the day to day, your team is like, we want more of this. We want less of this. We need this. And your job is to serve them. Your investors are like, grow faster, worked harder. Your job is to serve them. Your customer is like, this is broken, fix it. Your job is to serve them. And when you have these three dimensions, your job is to balance all those things and make sure that everyone is happy and moving forward and aligned. And like it’s a lonely ass job being a CEO. So, and you suck at it and you fail and you have to own your failures, and you will do things like could be bad for your culture. And you’ve got to like undo them because you set the culture early on. If you read Super Pumped or Bad Blood, you will know what a toxic cultures are like. They were trying to counteract them.
Ahmed Elsamadisi (46m 37s):
But you kind of realized that you can’t really hold failure too much. And so they’ll become like this thing, like stubbing your toe. It sucks. It happens without you realizing you can be very careful when you walk, but you are still going to stub your toe and it’s going to hurt. And then you move on. And guess what you forgot the last time you stubbed your toe, even though it might of happened like two days ago.
Alina Warrick (46m 59s):
Yeah.
Ahmed Elsamadisi (46m 59s):
It becomes like such a natural thing that happens.
Alina Warrick (47m 1s):
I do want to hone in on something that you said that was so, so powerful – serving, right? Serving the investors, serving your customers, serving your team. I think if Entrepreneurs really understood that this whole entrepreneurship is really about serving the community, serving everyone around, becomes a much easier and becomes a very compassionate part of the entrepreneurial journey. So thank you. Thank you for refreshing us with that. And I truly appreciate the fact that this is all really about serving, serving everyone around us. So that’s awesome.
Ahmed Elsamadisi (47m 38s):
So just kind of adding a little tiny note to that because your job is to serve. You build a relationship with your team of love and then it becomes super important. Like I mentioned earlier, two years in and then we ran out of money. We, we didn’t have enough money to coming in and it’s really hard to raise when you’re not, when you don’t have any customers and you don’t have any cash to build. And your team is all willing to go down to the minimum wage with you. You just realize how much people are willing to take risks with you and be with you and together we can fight this battle and pursue for a bigger, a greater goal. And I think start-ups right now get this culture of like Hoorah, like we’re going to do it.
Ahmed Elsamadisi (48m 18s):
We are going to become billionaires. No, you really don’t, like you don’t become a billionaire on a start-up like, it’s a really terrible way to make money, I personally think. You do have your duty and if you and your team are all together, caring for each other, then failure is a lot less lonely because you have a bunch of people to fail with.
Alina Warrick (48m 36s):
Yeah, that’s so powerful. Thank you. So let’s switch gears and talk about successes. Are there any successes that you would like to outline from your Immigrant Entrepreneur journey?
Ahmed Elsamadisi (48m 46s):
Yeah, so that was a lot of successes that you have also along the way, and we celebrate them. The first time you raised the money and every time we raised money, it’s incredible. You see people who believe in your vision and want to join you and have a part in this company. So every time we raised money, it’s always exciting. And I think I’m sure a bunch of other podcast talk about it, but there was a couple of other times that I think success is where you truly, truly get excited. Well, one is when your customers tells you they love you. When they tell that they love you, it’s like a big, you know, you’re like a shapeless, nameless company and somebody just like, I want to let you know that I love you. And you’re like, you made my day better. And at that moment it was like, Oh shit.
Ahmed Elsamadisi (49m 27s):
Like this feeling is exactly why we worked hard. The same thing goes on with your team. Just today, like earlier, before this call, we have a feature called templates and we get to use them this whole like copy and paste analysis that we’re going to release soon. And my team member, Brittany, she runs data for us. She goes, Oh, I love using narrative templates. It is so amazing. I got to do this whole thing so I remember. I spent like months doing. I just did it in a minute. I am so excited. I love using this tool. And when your team tell you that they love using your own product, because there’s a lot of companies that don’t use their own product or like they use their own product, but they don’t love it. But when you have people that love using your own product and customers who love you for creating this thing and helping bring something to the world.
Ahmed Elsamadisi (50m 11s):
I think to me, those wins are like a thousand losses in a row and have some one at the end of the day to tell you that they love you, and you’re like, damn, I’m going to go.
Alina Warrick (50m 19s):
That’s awesome. Okay. So thank you so much for sharing that Ahmed. Is giving back either volunteering time or giving back to the community something that is part of your business values?
Ahmed Elsamadisi (50m 29s):
Yes. So me and my team are super passionate about, mainly about giving back with our skillset. So whether it’s teaching, which we do a lot of or giving back our expertise. So when we work with nonprofit and any nonprofit listening please reach out, if you want to be a part of this journey, we don’t like to donate money. What we like to do is donate expertise because a non-profit is expensive for them to hire an engineer. And we have engineers who are 15 years experienced and very talented, and we can offer them for a little bit of time so that they can help really make an impact, we will do like, non-profits are spending money, why don’t they use Narrator? And we can help them manage, optimize their spend.
Ahmed Elsamadisi (51m 11s):
And we’ll do that as our service. That’s like having the experts providing their resources for you for free. And that’s kind of how we give back. If you’ve ever looked at my LinkedIn, there’s a lot of like younger kids there from like age 14, to people in college that I am consistently mentoring through just whether they are on an entrepreneurship journey or doing
Ahmed Elsamadisi (52m 0s):
So those are the kinds of ways that we find that our company can do lasting impact that’s crucial. That was like a more personal opinion. So a lot of companies look at community service as part of like their marketing budget and it’s like something that they talk a lot about, and we are not like that, like we are, if you could talk to people who know us and have worked with us. What we like to focus a lot more on, it as part of our company culture and we all do it together. And it’s a lot about really making an impact, like we’re not the kind of a company who will come together and just like help to volunteer together and clean or do something like that, which is very, very helpful. We find that the biggest impact, which is by lending and offering the skillsets that those non-profits and those companies won’t have to spend a lot of money to get.
Ahmed Elsamadisi (52m 47s):
And we would rather save them the recruiting, the hiring, the salaries, and we just provide our skillsets to them in a more active role.
Alina Warrick (52m 54s):
That’s awesome. I love it. I love it. And so what’s next for you, Ahmed? What are some business goals for the next couple of years, anything that you can share with us?
Ahmed Elsamadisi (53m 5s):
Yeah. So we’re going to launch the Narrator
Ahmed Elsamadisi (53m 48s):
And maybe we need that relationship so that you, as a company, as a data analyst can talk about attribution analysis with another company without either of you ever sharing your data, you’re all looking at your individual data. You’re looking at a similar analysis, you’re looking at the logic that’s making it and you can talk about like what you’re going to do. And I think that we can help make the world of data a little bit less lonely and a lot more together. And that’s kind of the biggest thing I’m excited for.
Alina Warrick (54m 16s):
That’s genius and now I’m sure a lot of people getting together with all that brain power, you can develop a lot more different niches, a lot of different products out there. So that’s so, so powerful, getting everyone together. So that’s amazing. Ahmed, so I want to wrap up with really, really fast questions if you are okay with that.
Ahmed Elsamadisi (54m 37s):
Yeah, go ahead.
Alina Warrick (54m 38s):
Okay. What time do you normally start your day?
Ahmed Elsamadisi (54m 41s):
When I wake up, I don’t use alarm clocks.
Alina Warrick (54m 43s):
Wow. That’s awesome. So you can wake up like at nine, 10 o’clock
Ahmed Elsamadisi (54m 47s):
Yeah. I’d get up anytime I want. And I’ve worked that way and everyone in the company gets to do the same thing.
Alina Warrick (54m 55s):
Wow. That’s awesome. I want to get on your level.
Ahmed Elsamadisi (54m 60s):
It’s convenient, like why force you to work at early morning or late afternoon and if that’s not how you work, so.
Alina Warrick (55m 7s):
Right, right, right, right. Yeah. Yeah. I love it. So the next one is how many employees do you have?
Ahmed Elsamadisi (55m 13s):
With seven people on right now?
Alina Warrick (55m 16s):
Seven?
Ahmed Elsamadisi (55m 17s):
Yes. Seven.
Alina Warrick (55m 17s):
Awesome. Awesome. How often do you watch TV in a week?
Ahmed Elsamadisi (55m 20s):
I don’t own a TV, but I’ll hop on my computer and watch like an episode or two episodes. Probably a week of like TV shows.
Alina Warrick (55m 27s):
Okay. So like an hour or two a week. Awesome. And then how many hours of work do you normally put in and say in a week?
Ahmed Elsamadisi (55m 33s):
I don’t know. I spent a lot of time talking to people, I don’t consider that work, like an average of like 8 to 10 a day. So like, 40 to 50?
Alina Warrick (55m 41s):
Oh, that’s not bad at all. That’s awesome.
Ahmed Elsamadisi (55m 44s):
Yeah. The most of our team’s have kids and a lot of them have been working half-time since COVID started, so you don’t need to work a hundred hours to make dreams come true.
Alina Warrick (55m 53s):
I love it. Oh my goodness. Thank you. Thank you so much for sharing that. So Ahmed, thank you so much for coming on to the show. You are extremely innovative and you are changing the world and the data community out there. And I absolutely love what you’re doing. So thank you so much for sharing your journey with the world and I’m sending you all the best of successes your way. Thank you. Thank you so much.
Ahmed Elsamadisi (56m 15s):
Thank you so much. I’m excited. And thank you for giving me a platform to share some of these things. I appreciate you tremendously.
Alina Warrick (56m 23s):
Alrighty, guys, thank you so much for tuning in. If there are any links that were mentioned in this episode, make sure to check them out on my website under this episode, to find all the links conveniently located in the show notes. I just wanted to ask for a quick favor, if you could please leave a review wherever you’re at listening to this podcast. Also, if you’re an Immigrant Entrepreneur and would love to be on my podcast, please e-mail me and we’ll get connected. I’ll see you guys all next time for another exciting and impactful episode, take care.[/read]
